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Are Partisan Politics Finding a Seat On The School Board?

Although it's a nonpartisan elected position, the politics is playing an increased role on the Menomonee Falls School Board and the upcoming election. And it's not just happening in Menomonee Falls.

As the April 3 election quickly approaches, the spotlight has shifted toward the Menomonee Falls School Board, and political affiliations of board members and candidates could influence the outcome of this upcoming election and elections to come.

The debate over Act 10 — Gov. Scott Walker’s repair bill — was perhaps the needle that injected partisanship into virtually every level of government in Wisconsin.

The partisan barbs and harsh debate generated by the passage of the bill, which eliminates most bargaining rights of public employees, isn't just limited to state recall elections. Now, political affiliations of the Falls School Board and the board candidates are being magnified and scrutinized.

When Verify the Recall released its searchable public database of individuals who signed a recall petition for the governor, lieutenant governor, and state senators, curious individuals could spend a day searching for those who signed.

If you searched for the names of School Board members Lori Blodorn and Gina Palazzari, you’d find that they signed petitions in 2011 for both Walker and Republican state Sen. Alberta Darling.

That decision has garnered negative feedback from residents and Patch readers. Both Blodorn and Palazzari have served more than a year on the board, and both were members of the five-member negotiating team that constructed .

They are the only two members of either the school or village boards whose names were found in the recall database.

However, both women — who are not on the ballot this year — were adamant that their personal decision to sign a petition has nothing to with their duties as School Board members.

“I think that partisanship doesn’t have a place on the School Board,” said Blodorn, whose term doesn't expire until next spring. “Whether I signed the recall petition or not as an individual citizen has no bearing on how I do my job as a School Board member. Since Act 10, we are living in a hyper-partisan world.”

Palazzari received a couple emails from residents looking forward to preventing her re-election in 2014 based upon her decision to sign a recall petition.

“Board members are elected officials, but that doesn't take away our ability as private citizens to exercise our legally protected rights,” she said. “I signed the recall petition as a private person, taking Act 10 and its fallout into personal consideration.”

Taxpayers group gets involved

In a , Act 10 and the teachers contract were central issues of debate between the candidates in the April 3 election. Less focus was placed on the inner workings of the schools, and dollars and cents dominated most of the discussion. Touting the line on Act 10 has become central to the platform of candidates Richard Houdek and Paul Tadda, who are running against incumbent David Noshay and newcomer Michele Divelbiss.

Houdek and Tadda both made it clear early on in the forum that they were firm supporters of Act 10. In fact, the first sentence of both their opening statements were declarations of support for the legislation.

Their strong support of the measure garnered them an endorsement from the Menomonee Falls Taxpayer’s Association, which is a relatively new group dedicated to electing conservative leaders to office. Although the School Board is a nonpartisan race, Tadda said the endorsement is beneficial.

“I believe it is a positive for my campaign. I am being honest by telling people that I am a conservative, and the endorsement only shows that other conservatives agree that I am a true conservative,” he said.

Houdek also spoke highly of his endorsement from the conservative group when asked if it was a positive development for his campaign.

“Yes, I do. Lower taxes, conservative principles, and less government is a goal we should be seeking,” Houdek said.

Interstingly, Tadda lists Houdek as one of several other conservatives that he has endorsed, and is endorsed by.

The new landscape of  politics

According to "Becoming a Better Board Member," which is released from the National School Boards Association, a School Board member has four roles. Board members' roles are to have a vision, structure, accountability and advocacy. Political affiliations aren't mentioned in the manual, which is meant as a primer for new board members.

Whatever side of the political spectrum a Falls resident is on, it’s clear the School Board is no longer sheltered from the influence of politics. It’s a dynamic that’s changing the political landscape in not only Wisconsin but the country.

Just take a look back at the state “nonpartisan” Supreme Court election that pitted Democrat JoAnne Kloppenburg against Republican David Prosser last April. The election would determine a swing vote on the court, and both candidates were quite clear about their political affiliations. The election had high turnout, and was essentially a referendum on whether the state was heading in the right direction.

But it's a dynamic reaching the entire nation.

In Jefferson County in Colorado, a local NBC affiliate reported how typical “mom and pop” School Board elections had turned into coordinated professional campaigns. In Bellingham, Washington, a local election for the conservation district board member race also was heated with party affiliations. An election that usually needed just 30 ballots swelled to 1,200.

Partisanship is an issue that has prompted “Letters to the Editor” in publications in South Carolina and just up north in Germantown asking for it to remain out of the debate.

The dynamic has been embedded in election landscape that Utah lawmakers attempted to pass legislation in 2011 mandating partisan elections for School Board races in that state. The bill was passed by the Senate, but was never heard in the House.

Should schools be a partisan debate?

Regardless of their political bent, all four candidates for School Board assured voters that their personal beliefs would not interfere with their work on the board.

“With the three years of experience I have on the School Board I am a nonpartisan participant and I have no other agenda other than improving education for our students,” Noshay said during the forum.

Tadda said announcing his conservatism was simply an act of full disclosure for voters.

“I am a conservative, and I believe that the majority of Menomonee Falls voters are conservatives who want their elected representatives to reflect their values as closely as possible. This is how representative democracy is supposed to work,” Tadda said. “I believe it is only reasonable for voters to desire information on the political beliefs of their School Board candidates. Therefore, I am providing the voters with this information.”

Tadda added that it’s impractical to suggest that b oard members can completely separate themselves from their beliefs.

“This illustrates a point that I made in the forum. To suggest that a person will separate themselves from their political views just because they are elected to the School Board is really not practical,” he said. “It is another reason why I am comfortable running as a conservative. I am being honest with the voters.”

When asked if a person’s political affiliation should be a deciding factor on who to vote for, Houdek’s response wasn’t 100 percent in one direction.

“Probably not, but I support Governor Walker and Governor Walker's Act 10, budget repair bill, and I'm proud of it.,” Houdek said.

However, seasoned School Board members Blodorn and Palazzari said partisan-based discussion has harmed debate about issues in the district, and has drifted the focus of the community away from what’s important.

“We all want the same things for our schools. We all want good schools, and we all want to do that in a fiscally responsible way,” Blodorn said. “I want that as a board member. Taxpayers and citizens want that. Administrators, custodians, and teachers all want the same thing. However, it’s unfortunate that the partisan issues are dictating the debate right now.”

Blodorn said aligning oneself with a political affiliation in a School Board race doesn’t benefit anyone.

“Aligning yourself with a political party in a nonpartisan race does the community a disservice,” Blodorn said.

On a regular basis, the School Board hosts open roundtable discussions with members of the community. On Tuesday, the district held another session where technology upgrades, curriculum, and staffing. However, Palazarri said only a small crowd of regular attendees were there.

“It’s put this whole race into a different realm that I don’t think is useful for the village or the functioning of our schools,” Palazzari said. “We had the same handful of people there for our roundtable discussion as we usually do. Some people have devolved the whole election into politics. It’s a little disappointing and disingenuous that many of those same people weren’t there.”

Bert March 23, 2012 at 09:10 PM
Craig, Act 10 still requires the district to pay in to WRS pension system. MFSB is paying the MINIMUM ALLOWED BY ACT 10, meaning teachers are paying the max allowed by Act 10. Regarding the rest of your "averages", what is your source of this data? Is this for private sector employees with bachelors and masters degrees, as is required for teaching positions, or do your averages include 18 year old burger-flippers? Finally, even the conservative heros on the New Berlin SB provide a health plan with a $500/$1000 deductible, and pay more than your 25% number. MFSB cut employee costs substantially with this contract, with compensation that is right in line with what other districts are paying the teachers. You can CHOOSE to be pissed off because you BELIEVE the board is a bunch of evil, taxpayer hating goons. You can CHOOSE to BELIEVE in the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy. At the end of the day, the facts are plain, and any reasonable person who wants to know what is in the contract can click the link above and read the whole thing.
Jann March 23, 2012 at 09:14 PM
Sorry, should have said. What don't you get about the fact that people want to vote for change so that their vote will actually count.
Craig March 23, 2012 at 09:14 PM
Bert: You are a spin doctor for sure. If you go back and read my post (all of it) I clearly disclosed the 2500/5000 numbers were for private sector employees. I even included ****asterisks**** to make a point. My issue was clear: *****Specifically- the contribution for Health Insurance.****** More importantly, when the public was crying shame shame shame- the board ignored us. Not taking full advantage of "savings" is equal to wasteful spending.
Jann March 23, 2012 at 09:16 PM
Bert: Again, the lousy way they went about this sucked! Taxpayers didn't have a chance. What don't you understand about the making people want to vote for change so that their vote may actually count? Even if this was the best we'd get in the end, you don't tell the union you'll vote yes before the taxpayers get to speak. I realize the two members that did this are not up for election at this time, but the others admitted not reading the contract before the vote. Geez, that's signing a contract 101.
Bert March 23, 2012 at 09:18 PM
Personally, I'm pretty thrilled with Greco and the crowd she's brought in. I think that was a great choice on the Boards' part. I don't know about the personnel problems you see, but I'm hopeful the accountability and general professional management will improve with her here. I think the move on the HS principal was a big plus too, though I don't have kids in the HS yet and only heard stories of things not going well there. As it relates to change, even in the companies I've worked for, it doesn't happen overnight. Still, it wouldn't hurt to take the issues you know of to the board at a round table or to Greco directly. Won't change if they don't hear about it.
Bert March 23, 2012 at 09:29 PM
Craig - so you're "average" (still unsourced) is for all private sector employees, including those who work for WalMart (no benefits) and those who flip burgers. Unfortunately, that's not how the free market works. If we could effectively staff our schools with 18 year old burger flippers, we could easily reduce compensation to be on par with McDonalds. However, we have to compete for decent teachers and administrators with the other districts in our area, so our basis of comparison is what the others in the area make. As I pointed out, even conservative New Berlin is not far off what MFSB got in the contract. Jann, what I don't understand is how after all the shouting, it turns out that what the SB voted for is exactly what even the conservative members of the community wanted in a teacher's contract, you still maintain that it's some kind of capitulation to the union and we're all getting screwed? The facts are clearly that the board implemented EVERYTHING that Act 10 envisioned. They did it in a contract rather than a handbook. As for the manner in which the contract was passed, I'd suggest that if you'd like to know what's going on with the board, try attending the bi-weekly public meetings, the monthly round tables, any of the sub-committee meetings that go on all year long, or at least watch these meetings on the web, community cable, or read the minutes. The only reason you're not in the know, is because you're not trying to be.
Craig March 23, 2012 at 09:35 PM
Bert I can see we have to agree to disagree. I can't explain it any clearer than to tell you to compare to the average American. I've made my living working with employers on health care and retirement plans, perhaps you would point me toward employers who want to provide pension plans? :-) Not implementing all of what Act 10 had provided cost the taxpayer money. Perhaps the MFSB should have read the contract before voting for it, and they should have allowed the public to read it. Regarding your statement: "You can CHOOSE to be pissed off because you BELIEVE the board is a bunch of evil, taxpayer hating goons. You can CHOOSE to BELIEVE in the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy." Well I guess we are done here, it is obvious you are unreasonable.
Jann March 23, 2012 at 10:14 PM
Bert: You are full of crap and obviously didn't read my posts on the other article where you asked me for info. I have attended meetings. Do you know who I am some how? What makes you think I haven't. I did admit to you that I have cut back quite a bit and I do watch on cable as you suggest. For cripe sake, read what people write before you comment back. You look like a fool. Yes I'm mad as Heck and so are others that are voices were not heard. You are out numbered on this blog and I hope you are out numbered at the polls.
Bert March 23, 2012 at 11:08 PM
Jann, my apologizes for not realizing that when you admitted that you never asked the board questions when complaining that they don't answer, I took that to mean you don't engage the board at their meetings. Regarding "voices not being heard", from what I can tell, the contract that a small group of talk radio listeners got upset about, actually includes everything those same people actually wanted. I'd be much more sympathetic to your complaint if the substance of the contract showed some kind of unusual, extraordinary benefits that teachers in other districts didn't get. But when the contract actually contains everything most people wanted in terms of reforming union benefits and compensation, it just sounds like whining. Some folks like to complain, I get that. I am genuinely interested to know the substantive source of people's complaints, especially with elected boards. What you and the small handful of exceptionally vocal conservatives have demonstrated is that you're furious with the board for absolutely no real reason. You're entitled to that sentiment, but I doubt that any rational person who reads this article and the comment section, and actually checks the facts enumerated in the contract itself, would conclude that the board acted in an unusually generous way with the union. You feel otherwise, with no real specifics to back it up, and that's fine.
Bert March 23, 2012 at 11:08 PM
Jann, my apologizes for not realizing that when you admitted that you never asked the board questions when complaining that they don't answer, I took that to mean you don't engage the board at their meetings. Regarding "voices not being heard", from what I can tell, the contract that a small group of talk radio listeners got upset about, actually includes everything those same people actually wanted. I'd be much more sympathetic to your complaint if the substance of the contract showed some kind of unusual, extraordinary benefits that teachers in other districts didn't get. But when the contract actually contains everything most people wanted in terms of reforming union benefits and compensation, it just sounds like whining. Some folks like to complain, I get that. I am genuinely interested to know the substantive source of people's complaints, especially with elected boards. What you and the small handful of exceptionally vocal conservatives have demonstrated is that you're furious with the board for absolutely no real reason. You're entitled to that sentiment, but I doubt that any rational person who reads this article and the comment section, and actually checks the facts enumerated in the contract itself, would conclude that the board acted in an unusually generous way with the union. You feel otherwise, with no real specifics to back it up, and that's fine.
Bert March 23, 2012 at 11:11 PM
Totally agree with that. I don't know if or what the board did in the past - only been in MF for five years or so. Let's hope they keep looking for "upgrades" like with Dr. Greco.
Jann March 24, 2012 at 03:40 PM
Bert seems to have a reading comprehension problem also. I wonder where he went to grade school? He just doesn't get that taxpayers are unhappy at the way in which the contract was passed regardless if what's in it is enough or not.
dande March 25, 2012 at 10:18 AM
Steve, you are correct that the pressure or accountability needs to continue to be put on public sector union employees. And this all starts at the local school boards and aldermadic districts. I am a former union member for 15 years and was very involved in my local. They did not appreciate me as I have always been a conservative and voice and make my points on that value. To the point at hand, at these two early levels is where unions try to get their members and/or family members in place to push the agenda to preserve their status quo. Outside of citizens being active at the meetings, it5 is important to learn the background of these board members and replace those that have ties to big labor.
Hugh Jass March 25, 2012 at 12:27 PM
Remember the complete contempt the school board had for the taxpayers that can to the watch them consummate their contract vote that had clearly been passed before the taxpayers were notified of such a contract. http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/MILWAUKEE-WI/BLNG-IP/belling_5-23-11_1.mp3 http://menomoneefalls.patch.com/articles/video-the-board-votes-the-crowd-cries-shame#video-6222537 Also, don't forget about the emails between the school board members and the union leadership about how to word the press release about the passage of the contract BEFORE their contract vote and before the taxpayers were notified of such a contract. BERT, if "...nothing really jumps out at me as being particularly good for the union...", wouldn't the union have been upset about that vote? Wouldn't the union want the board to have waited until the Wisconsin Supreme Court affirmed Judge Sumi's decision to block Act 10?
JV March 27, 2012 at 01:16 AM
Bert, You can quibble over the language of the contract until you are blue in the face. This is not an ideological debate. The current board granted concessions that the union is not entitled to under Act 10. That is a simple fact. The current board has been an ABJECT failure. That is a charge related to specific results. Under the tenure of this board and the previous superintendent, there was a complete abdication of the responsibilities to the TAXPAYERS and CHILDREN of Menomonee Falls. In October of 2010, the Milwaukee Business Journal published a report from The Public Policy Forum which analyzed data, including operating costs and ACT scores, from all southeastern Wisconsin school districts for the 2009-2010 academic year. In this report, Falls is • 10th in expenditures/pupil, • 9th in property tax revenue/student, and yet is • 37th in average ACT scores. HOW IN GOD'S GOOD NAME CAN THAT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN? These idiots want to be reelected. They should be happy that they are not tarred and feathered.
Bert March 27, 2012 at 07:14 PM
Craig, again, your comparison of trained and licensed teachers, with minimum requirement of a bachelor's degree AND a state teaching license, to a "regular" employee is bogus. It's like crying about a rocket scientist making more money than a WalMart greeter. Compare the benefits MFSD provides its teachers against those of neighboring districts (with whom we compete for teachers) and you'll see that the board achieved as low a cost as was reasonable. As I said, even the extremely contentious New Berlin school board, which drew much larger and more vocal opposition for its handbook than the Falls board did for its contract, still only has a $500/1000 deductible for its health care. Raising deductibles in most real world cases is the same as lowering compensation. The contract already lowers total teacher compensation substantially through the WRS contribution and higher premium payments, not to mention all the tick-tacky stuff like duty pay. Also, you keep bringing up pensions as if the board has any say in that. ACT 10 STILL REQUIRES DISTRICTS TO PROVIDE A PENSION BENEFIT. The new contract has the teachers paying the maximum amount toward their pension, exactly the same as Act 10 says. I am simply at a loss to understand how the reality of what is in the contract is somehow a ripoff. Either you have no grasp of the facts of the contract, Act 10, or both.
Bert March 27, 2012 at 07:22 PM
So Jann, let me follow your logic. If a mob of partisans show up and holler at legislators, and those legislators ignore the mob of partisans and pass a bill anyway, you would stand up against the heavy-handed officeholders who ignored the shouting of their constituents? On which line of the recall petition can we find your signature? My point in this all along has been that most of the posters on this board keep expressing outrage over this contract, even though not a one of them can point to specifics in the contract that are so bad. Usually, when they do point to a specific, it's something completely irrelevant to the contract. (I.e.- Craig's constant harping on how the teachers have any pension at all, which is beyond the control of ANY school board to change). The simple fact is, most of the pitchfork-toting mob that showed up for the contract meeting had never been to a board meeting before, or since. They were sent their by an equally uninformed radio clown. Notice in Mrs. Devilbiss' statement on this site, she participated in the district finance planning group - a great way any of the angry mob could have known in intimate detail what was going on with district budgeting. If there was anything substantially different in the contract the board worked out than in the handbooks our neighboring districts opted for, I'd take your side on this issue. The fact is, there is no difference. Yours is simply anger for the sake of anger.
Bert March 27, 2012 at 07:27 PM
Hugh, the contract is a PUBLIC document that Carl conveniently linked to. Please review it and tell me precisely what in the contract is so great for the unions? There's no need for your convoluted logic. You have the document, you can read it for yourself and tell us all precisely which parts were such great wins for the union. I've read it, and I honestly can't find anything to cause such hostility. Could it just be that the board and the MFEA (the ACTUAL union here in the Falls, not WEAC) found a way to cooperatively accomplish what Act 10 was looking for?
Bert March 27, 2012 at 07:44 PM
JV, given the absolute lack of facts behind the vast majority of the comments, this is NOTHING BUT and ideological debate. I've seen both your argument (we're not getting the test scores up!) and the "cut-cut-cut" argument (largely from the same people), without any attempt to rectify the two things. Also, your statement that the board "granted concessions to the union" lacks any factual basis. What concessions?!? The contract is available for you to read. It seems that many posters here would rather simply BELIEVE that the contract is some nefarious work of treachery, than to actually sit down and read the damn thing. I'm not quibbling over the language in the contract, I'm asserting that those who are so bent out of shape over it have no idea what they're even bent out of shape about. As to the board being an abject failure, I have to say I am very happy with the education my two kids are receiving here in the Falls. The test score rankings you trot out are misleading at best. MF has a higher % of low income students, both from the Falls and from Milwaukee, than districts like Mequon or Elmbrook, or even Hamilton do. We need to make sure we're doing the extra things we need to do to make all kids successful, but it's a significantly greater challenge to achieve high scores for kids in tough home environments than it is for kids who live in 4,000 sf Mequon McMansions. I'm not really sure how your "cut-and-gut" approach will result in HIGHER performance.
Jann March 27, 2012 at 08:05 PM
Bert: Do you really think that it's the low income students dragging down the ACT scores and AP test scores. I don't think that many of them take those tests. And for your information, I wanted the low income transfer program gone for years. How can they not be using up more resources than the district can afford to offer. At what point do you say enough is enough we can't afford to keep them coming here instead of using the philosophy that they bring in revenue. Do they really if they need so much extra help on everything?
Tulsa March 27, 2012 at 09:04 PM
So who promoted low income kids to come to MF for the $$$$$$ , and who contiunes to ok more appartments being build in MF , Your answer is they sit right next to each other in the same Bld on Pilgrim rd. Bert who proposed merit pay for the teachers ? You Yourself Bert said after next year the Dist with be able to layoff notwithstanding seniority and also remove teachers who perform poorly . Bert the residents did attend the meeting ,they must of thought it was important to be there, and there was not enought room to accommodate them. Bert it's called Democracy so why are you criticizing and name calling them , they pay the freight .
Craig March 27, 2012 at 09:16 PM
I think Bert spent too much time with Ernie in the "Magic Kingdom", he really doesn't seem to get it.
Tulsa April 01, 2012 at 05:43 PM
Weachater : Divelibiss said she and her husband are conservative republicans , so now Blodorn is criticizing Divelibiss because of her political party afflilation. So Blodorn said Divelibiss is aligning herself and "doing the community a disservice". After reading the Bio of each candidate Divelbiss is the only one to said she is a republican . So why is Blodorn making such statements she's not running for election now., why is Blodorn trashing Divelbiss.
casino ray April 03, 2012 at 01:15 AM
Chris Slinker did when he was briefly on the Village Board. Biggest idiot who ever got elected. I see he still likes to troll these blogs pretending to be some crusader for problems he caused. Chris Slinker always thought he has the smartest person in the room when he was the dumbest rock in the zip code. This Chris Davis sounds a lot like Chris Slinker. also sounds like that idiot Geico, First Weber, etc on our local blogs. He seems to be super jealous of anyone who gets elected in the Falls. If Chris Davis is Slinker that certainly would be weird beyond words. Calling Dr. Freud! Chris loves to throw mud but when it splatters back in his face he boo-hoos like a big baby. Funny how all the elected officials he thinks he is smarter than always end up eating his lunch. Chris Davis! Why are you interfering in this race? I am going to join slinkr in calling you out you immature punk.
chris williams April 03, 2012 at 03:39 PM
Don't you fell you guys could face legal action from Slinker for accusing him being Geico, Smoking joe , Davis, ,,,,Lets roll who would post such things are you Klumb or Casino, Bert, # 1 or # 2 .... I think someone should have the Justice wheels file suit for what you have done to Slinker .... Shame on you ... Don't forget to vote today...
Slinkr April 03, 2012 at 07:01 PM
Boy! To say you are dumber than a box of rocks was an insult to rocks. I am an atty. and know that what was said here is not actionable. On the other hand the accusations made against city officials, police chief, citizens, developers women, etc. is very actionable. Why don't you get it started? I will represent a class action suit against geico and other fake names for slander, libel and false charges. Maybe the police will want to talk to "geico" about the knowledge of felonies you claim to have but have never presented.. The discovery process should be very interesting don't you think. I have a friend of mine who keeps all phone records, voice mails with time stamps, and emails for billing purposes. This goes back to the early 2000s. He got lots of calls from, well you know who. Perhaps I can convince him to send it to a Madison DA. Let's talk about why WRA support dried up next time you want to post. Punk
casino ray April 03, 2012 at 08:47 PM
The weasel attacks!!!! I don't think Slinker ever went to college. No, I think not... From the Chris Jefferson Williams Davis Blog: Sir Geico - Mar 29 at 2:25 PM - Report Abuse JD when is your next posting . are you still have a blog page. (No I don't think he ever went to college...) Sir Geico - Feb 14 at 2:48 PM - Report Abuse Sir Geico - Feb 08 at 2:00 PM - Report Abuse Well I see the other Bloger is back with the same old BS and no one cares. Cry baby goes to local media to censor and threaten to bring justice with his SLOWWWW wheels of revenge Looks like the Hotel is 45 K in the hole for 2011 years taxes , so who's going to pic up their taxes = ANSEWER :::: YOU. So when does Fitz release the numbers ??? Just tell us how the Hotel is doing . I bet if they were Great, Fitz would have them splashed on every Media outlet so they must be poor. Save your $$$$ [hidden] taxes will be going up brought to you your local RINO's.. Jefferson good luck getting any info from the locals . Silence is golden......" (Sage advice from a total Moron!)
Geico August 19, 2012 at 01:18 AM
Two RINO's defeated and a whole board to go. The wheels turning slowwwwww Be well All....
W . Benz December 27, 2012 at 01:40 PM
Who's the Geico
W . Benz April 18, 2013 at 01:48 PM
Not convinced

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