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Huge Day in The Supreme Court

Today marks perhaps the most important day in the ObamaCare Supreme Court case as justices hear arguments concerning the law’s insurance mandate.

Today marks perhaps the most important day in the ObamaCare Supreme Court case as justices hear arguments concerning the law’s insurance mandate.

Requiring that citizens purchase a product they may or may not want isn’t just an unnecessary burden—it’s unconstitutional.

You see, ObamaCare doesn’t just further bankrupt our nation, raise taxes and deny millions of Americans access to affordable insurance—it flies directly in the face of our Constitution.

As such, I am confident that the Supreme Court will see the president’s multi-trillion dollar takeover of our health care system for what it really is—an affront to our Constitution and an attack on our freedoms.

I look forward to the day when ObamaCare is either struck down in the court or repealed by legislators who have the courage and conviction to do what’s right for our country so that we can achieve free-market, patient-first solutions that lower costs and improve care

For more information on my views about ObamaCare and where I stand on health care reform, please visit my website at www.EricForSenate.com.

Jay Sykes March 28, 2012 at 09:39 pm
@Lyle... JB is pays the same amount into SSI regardless of the number of children(exemptions) that he has.
Lyle Ruble March 28, 2012 at 09:45 pm
@J.B. Schmidt...Social Security is not a failed system. You have bought into a total falsehood with that. You want to talk about a failed scheme, that's 401(k) ripoff. It is time to take off your blinders and look at things anew. Everyone has a responsibility to prepare for retirement, disability and death. The program that Bush was proposing is already covered under Social Security and qualified retirement programs. It is time to understand that all the aging citizens will unite and keep Social Security and Medicare and that will be the end of that. Besides the system will self correct over the next thirty five years with the death of the baby boomer cohort. Boomers were much more responsible by having much smaller families and you'll find that by the time you retire your benefits will be there, unless you make some stupid decisions.
Lyle Ruble March 28, 2012 at 09:53 pm
@Jay Sykes....I didn't state that he paid more or less SSI, but he pays substantially less income taxes. I thought I was clear about that.
Bren March 28, 2012 at 09:58 pm
I understood that Social Security was designed to be able to compensate for generational population shifts by generating interest. It's the borrowing for non-Social Security items (such as the Iraq War) that cause challenges. If left alone there would be no problem, but as Lyle indicates, borrowing has been taking place since the 1960s.
The idea that Social Security being a "Ponzi" scheme is disrespectful to the U.S. Government and to every citizen. I believe it is atrocious for "conservatives" to go on the offensive about Social Security and Medicare when thanks to the recession, a generation of working people's financial paths have eroded, if not collapsed.
Bob McBride March 28, 2012 at 10:03 pm
Tao, so the solution to that ethical dilemma is a system that encourages them to do the latter. Brilliant. Those who don't offer insurance now aren't going to start doing so if the alternative is a tax fine that's less than the cost associated with offering it. Those who do are going to continue to do so for the same reason.
Again, where's the increase in "affordability" there?
Randy1949 March 28, 2012 at 10:21 pm
@JB Schmidt -- "Old man free-loader"? Unbelievable. Your parents and grandparents were happy enough to take the 7% (and later the 15%) I paid on the first dollar earned all my working life. That's money you didn't have to pay out to support them and money they may have been able to leave to you, thanks to a guaranteed income in their old age. And now you want to call a halt to the process, just like that.
I managed to raise a family with that 'forced extraction' and still put aside extra money for private IRAs. So I say, fine. Absolve retirees of the school levy on property taxes. Because they're your kids not mine. Give me a payout on my SS contributions with a rate of return the same as I got in the market, and we'll call it even.
Lyle Ruble March 28, 2012 at 10:31 pm
@Randy1949...It is amazing that these young conservatives are so untrustworthy. I would never knowingly enter into a contract with any of them; they just don't honor contracts and will figure out a way to keep from fulfilling them. .
Randy1949 March 28, 2012 at 10:33 pm
@Bob McBride -- At least the fine helps the uninsured employees afford private coverage of their own. Unlike the previous system, where no one could afford private health insurance for a family on $8 per hour.
We really need to scrap the employer-based health insurance system, especially when employers don't really have to provide it. You'd think this would be such a monkey off the backs of business that the private sector would jump at it.
Bob McBride March 28, 2012 at 10:39 pm
Randy, how does the fine help people afford insurance on their own, if the net effect is that they're laying out more money than they were in the past via a company plan (assuming they can afford to do so)?
Jay Sykes March 28, 2012 at 10:45 pm
@Randy.... If you want everyone to think SSI is 'wonderful' you need to send them a statement that shows the NPV that they will/can receive vs what they paid in. The big problem is when you show the separate cash streams the 'retirement' portion is a failure. If you invested your SSI monies in Tbills/Bonds FDIC insured savings account you would get double what SSI pays you in retirement including the fact your estate gets to keep the principal balance too. The survivors and disability payments are a reasonable value(similar to the private market), but are only about 1/6 of your SSI contribution.
Randy1949 March 28, 2012 at 10:52 pm
@Bob McBride -- The fines help pay for the subsidies to lower income workers. If their employers want to be jerks and not provide the coverage (which they could use as a legitimate business deduction) then so be it. It helps the ones whose employers declined to provide coverage at all.
Without the business deductions for insurance, those companies will pay higher income tax, which in turn pays for the subsidies to the workers.
Taoist Crocodile March 28, 2012 at 10:52 pm
@ Bob: You should also do your homework. Your questions amount to "I don't understand the law, so I'm afraid of it."
Bob McBride March 28, 2012 at 10:55 pm
Tao, I'm asking a question. Do you have an answer?
Bob McBride March 28, 2012 at 11:02 pm
So what you're saying, Randy, is that the employee whose employer is a "jerk", as you call it, for taking the government incentive not to provide insurance (i.e., going with the penalty) ends up paying more for their health insurance (assuming they can afford it) to make it easier (supposedly) for those who currently don't have insurance to afford insurance (again, assuming it actually does so).
Are there any hard figures out there to support this? I know what my employer based insurance is costing me a month right now.
Randy1949 March 28, 2012 at 11:03 pm
I never said it was 'wonderful', Jay. I merely said it was guaranteed, and if the returns are so poor why is the younger generation complaining about the high cost of maintaining us oldsters? The government is making it up somewhere else in the form of lower taxes.
Jay Sykes March 28, 2012 at 11:22 pm
@Randy... Note, again, that if you put the monies that SSI takes for your 'retirement' benefits and you, yourself put it in t-bills/bonds or a FDIC savings account(all guaranteed by the government just like SSI) you have double the total monies. Again, that is without -any- additional risk. JB wants 'market returns', probably not realistic for a 'guarantee' but shouldn't we a least get the same as we could do on our own with an identical risk level? When 15%+ is taken from my wage, I guess, I expect much,much better results.
Bob McBride March 28, 2012 at 11:24 pm
In other words, Randy, I'd like to figure out just how much more I'm going to have to pay out of my pocket so that you can "afford" health insurance.
Randy1949 March 28, 2012 at 11:34 pm
Nothing, McBride. I pay more out of pocket so that you lucky folks with employer-provided health insurance get the same hospital room I would pay full price for. Until I run out of money, and then it's Medicaid for me. I also pay extra for whatever service the business that employs you provides.
I really feel for you, having to pay that employee contribution for pool insurance. It must be awful.
Taoist Crocodile March 28, 2012 at 11:52 pm
Yes, Bob - I do have an answer, because I went to the trouble of researching the law. You can either do the same, and answer your own questions, or continue railing against the law in your confused state.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you've never had to make payroll, and never had employees who counted on you to make good decisions about their well being, And since you haven't, I shouldn't be surprised that you have so little understanding of the problems inherent in employer-based health care.
Randy1949 March 28, 2012 at 11:53 pm
@Jay -- What's the rate of return? When I started out, a savings account paid 4%. It's less now. I heard the same thing back then -- give me the FICA to invest and I can do better. I'm sure that's true, as long as you're paid enough to have something left over to save and invest. In addition to the FICA, I had money to put into IRAs, which I invested. It meant luxuries not acquired, vacations not taken, nose to the grindstone. Market manipulations ate a lot of it.
So now you GenXers are suggesting that we Boomers just eat the money we put into FICA. Or not eat, as the case may be. I really don't think so.
Randy1949 March 29, 2012 at 12:13 am
@Bob McBride -- Your employer could kick you to the curb any time s/he wanted to. And you might find yourself understanding why we need a change.
Have you by any chance read Ursula LeGuin's 'Those Who Walk Away from Omelas'? Are you comfortable with paying a few dollars less per month knowing that it means some people have nothing at all?
Bob McBride March 29, 2012 at 12:19 am
Randy? You know what I meant. Don't get all huffy. Assuming the "jerk" (again, your term, not mine - I don't think anyone would consider them jerks) employer who provides my health insurance bites at the hotdog dangled in front of their face as a result of "affordable health care", how much additional can I expect to fork over on the open market so that you can avail yourself of this new, "affordable" healthcare.
Don't tell me you're buying this scheme without having run the numbers? And what happens if there aren't enough "jerk" employers out there to fund the subsidy for guys like you? I mean, that is a possibility, isn't it? Or does this whole shell game hang on the assumption that employers, by nature, are jerks? And that folks who get kicked to the curb as a result of it are going to direct their anger at them, rather than a system that set the process in motion.
Bob McBride March 29, 2012 at 12:26 am
Randy, again you refuse to answer the question. Have you run any numbers on this? Does it work? Or does it only work if enough "jerk" employers are lured into dumping their health insurance programs?
Why do I have to read a book to get a straight answer on whether or not you expect to benefit at the expense of those who haven't found themselves in the position you've found yourself? And again, I go back to how pitting one segment of the middle class against another as a result of the intent of this law to encourage employers to be "jerks" is an example of Democrats "standing up for the middle class"?
Bob McBride March 29, 2012 at 12:48 am
Taoist, I'm not confused at all. I completely understand how employer based health insurance works and it's why I've correctly identified this as an attempt to entice employers to do away with it and force those who are benefitting from it now into a pool of folks who have to purchase it on the open market at a price higher (or not purchase it, if they can't afford it) than what they're paying now through their employer based program so that, in theory, those now in that same market would be able to purchase it at a rate lower than what they're paying now (again, supposedly).
If I'm wrong, prove me wrong with numbers. Or retreat once again into the rarified air of something that's really not as complicated as you make it out to be.
Bob McBride March 29, 2012 at 01:39 am
And just for the record, Randy, I've been self-employed and paid for my own insurance. Fought my way through every claim. Had my rates go up 100% in one year. Worked with a 5K deductible back when those things were unheard of. So it's not like I don't know what it's like. It's also why I don't believe for a moment that what I'd be subjected to if I had to go back to that market because "affordable health care" made it "affordable" for the employer that currently provides my insurance to drop it like a hot potato would be anywhere near "affordable" for me. I also, don't for a moment, believe you'd find yourself in the position of saving enough as a result of the subsidies to be any more able to purchase it than you are now.
That's why I asked if you had any numbers. Not some reading reference designed to reinforce the theory.
J. B. Schmidt March 29, 2012 at 05:01 am
@Lyle
Yes, my generation cannot be trusted to uphold a contract we have no say in and has been perverted multiple times between its inception and our arrival on this planet.
J. B. Schmidt March 29, 2012 at 05:33 am
@Randy
Same excuse as Lyle, the system sucks, you had to do it; therefore, everyone should. I am not expecting SS to pay me anything. That money that has been taken from me is gone. My generation understand and accepts that. You two got to play the big government nanny state your whole lives. I refuse to play that game and will make every attempt possible to change it. Not because I feel you don't deserve to get your money back, but because it is an archaic system that takes freedoms from me. You guys had many more years then I to change the system to something better and did nothing. Lyle claims we just need to wait till your dead and then everything will be better. I am not that patient.
mau March 29, 2012 at 06:51 pm
@Cowdung, you hit the nail on the head. There are parts I like but those could have been implemented without this draconian measure. There was no reason they couldn't have had the insurance exchanges before. I like that the lifetime limit has been removed. And we still don't know what all is in the legislation and what rules have to be written yet.
How is an individual who can't afford to pay for unaffordable health insurance going to have the money to pay the fine? Are they going to be thrown in prison? "It's a bit late for that now, isn't it? Perhaps if Obama hadn't pushed it through so quickly, we'd have something worth having..."
Randy1949 March 30, 2012 at 12:12 am
@mau -- The bill was pushed through quickly? It was actually debated and amended in the Congress from summer until December.
CowDung March 30, 2012 at 01:18 am
It seemed to me that they were writing it as they were calling for votes on it. It was pretty clear that nobody knew what the final form of the bill would be until shortly before the vote. It wasn't even complete enough to post online prior to the vote (as Obama's 'transparency' policy required it to be).

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