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Obamacare is a Budget Buster and Obama Knows This

Liberals have been using the CBO estimate to claim repealing Obamacare would hurt the deficit over next 10 years. They may not be dumb, but they think you are.

Many liberals are touting the report from the CBO claiming that Obamacare reduces the deficit.  Most of these liberals are not that dumb, but they think you are. Just for a minute let’s assume the analysis of the CBO is 100% accurate , the Medicare cuts happen , the taxes are collected as planned, and the number of people losing employer coverage is only 4 million people as the CBO projects.  Even if all this is true Obamacare would still the biggest threat to solving our fiscal problems.

The reason for this is obvious.  The massive increase in the numbers of people dependent on the government would greatly lower support for responsible spending reforms. Currently we can see from the polls Obama has at least 47% support for his clear plan to stick his head in the sand and pretend we do not have a problem.  Obamacare would push support for waiting for a fiscal disaster, rather than deal with our issues over the 50% mark. This might be great for the Democratic Party as they could be openly socialist and abandoned attempts to pretend they care about anyone who pays income taxes and has health insurance. Democrats would be ensured to be in power to manage the fiscal crash. Nice if all you care about is the Democratic party, but not so nice if you care about this nation.

However if you believe the answer from CBO represents reality you probably still believe in the tooth fairy.  The first issue is that $500 Billion comes from cuts to Medicare. We can’t even agree to keep past cuts in Medicare which we avoid by passing the “Doc Fix” legislation. The main plan is to have a board of 15 people determine what services seniors will be denied. The main plan is to have a board of 15 people determine what services seniors will be denied. Will that really happen as planned? Obama is hiding his elimination of Medicare advantage by using demonstration program money.  He does not want seniors to see that when they enroll this fall. If we really had acceptable plans to cut the money from Medicare we would need that money to fund Medicare. Stealing from a program that is going bankrupt is a trick to avoid dealing with the cost of the program. The main plan is to have a board of 15 people determine what services seniors will be denied.

A second issue is that the CBO does static analysis, so they assume the tax increase have no negative effect on the economy so tax increase always collect less than estimated in the long run. Also some of the taxes are counted for more years than the benefits, which further hides the cost of the program. This is a trick used by Bush that Democrats rightly complained about.  But the most unpredictable factor is how many people will lose their employer coverage in next 10 years and when that will occur.

The 4 million people losing insurance represents less than 5%. Surveys show 30% of employers plan to drop coverage in first 5 years. That number jumps to 50% among employers who are very familiar with the law.  This makes it clear that the real cost will skyrocket from current estimates.

CBO is forced to do its analysis the way they do, so I do not blame them.  As they say garbage going in, results in garbage going out. No reasonable person should believe those claims to be accurate. The truth is without repeal we are doomed to follow the path of Europe to a debt crisis and that Obamacare must be repealed as part of any plan for fiscal responsibility.

Bryant Divelbiss August 2, 2012 at 10:16 am
By the way the reason the CBO underestimates amount of businesses that will drop insurance, is they used the assumption companies will not drop coverage just to save money. Bad assumption.
Keith Schmitz August 2, 2012 at 11:01 am
So Bryant is hysterical about a government program. What else is new, other than it would be great if he had an effective alternative.
Turns out Bryant we have the Massachusetts experience, and very few businesses dropped their health insurance coverage, largely because many of them cared about their employees and also recognizd that it would be difficult to keep the good ones who would go to competitors who kept their plans. And if anyone did get dropped, there is the exchanges to tie them over until they found that other jobs. You see you all spout on in your childish way about freedom, but where is the freedom if you have a good idea for a business and you have to stick it out in your company because you have health insurance and can't afford to do without it?
Bob McBride August 2, 2012 at 11:24 am
"and very few businesses dropped their health insurance coverage, largely because many of them cared about their employees and also recognizd that it would be difficult to keep the good ones who would go to competitors who kept their plans."
******************* Wait a minute. Wouldn't some of these businesses be the same ones you condemn as being vulture capitalists who jump through hoops to ship jobs overseas at the drop of a hat if it'll save them a couple of bucks per hour? Now, all of a sudden, they "cared about their employees"? Nonsense. And nonsense. It's one thing to implement a plan like this in a single state in an area of the country where people can easily commute to another job where no such program exists if they so choose. It's another when the entire nation falls under the plan. You can't make an assumption regarding what companies are going to do once they're no longer faced with competition for employees operating under another system. Once again, your lack of understanding of how markets work is your Achille's heel. Stick to the snarky one liners and stay in your comfort zone.
Luke August 2, 2012 at 11:34 am
Apparently you have few medical expenses in your family, but with mine there will be plenty, even under Obamacare. Perhaps you don't have teeth, for example. Or perhaps you are blind, and in no need of prescription eyewear.
So, contrary to what you have said (until you unwittingly made my point), Obamacare does take away my freedom. It does so in a most extreme and absurd way, by requiring me to go to a doctor to get what the law allows me to get without a doctor's permission. DUH!
hank rearden August 2, 2012 at 01:57 pm
Obamacare is a part of a larger cloward piven strategy to break the system, it is not about healthcare, it is about controlling the largest part of the nations GDP. This is a communist attempt to control and break the system. if you disagree, you are a moron and cannot be helped.
Dirk Gutzmiller August 2, 2012 at 02:05 pm
McBride makes a good point about vulture capitalists not truly caring about their employees. Bain Capital is a good example.
His point about Massachusetts being so different than the rest of the country is ludicruous, particularly that they can easily commute to another job. Has anyone tried to drive around Boston and its many suburbs during rush hour? The main road across Mass. (I-90) is all tollway. Western Mass. is rural like much of Wisconsin, and there are truly geographically isolated areas, like Cap Cod, and big islands like Martha's Vineyard, and Nantucket. There is not that much nearby to commute to from Mass. to another state. Has McBride ever been there, or even closely looked at a map? And the people there are not so different from Wisconsin, they even elect Republicans, albeit briefly. McBride's views of the rest to the U.S., always seem so provincial and untraveled, yet he writes these boorish and awkward comments for a wider audience than his narrow experiences can possibly justify.
Dirk Gutzmiller August 2, 2012 at 02:09 pm
At least hank managed to spell moron correctly.
Let's always encourage more frank comments from the Tea Party core supporters like this.
hank rearden August 2, 2012 at 02:14 pm
Thank you Dirk for proving that your IQ is below 80. And you are welcome for all of the free government things I pay for that you use.
"Republicans, we work hard so you don't have to"
Lyle Ruble August 2, 2012 at 02:18 pm
@hank rearden...You've got to be kidding about the Cloward-Piven Strategy. It was faulty to begin with and for anyone serious about raising those out of poverty know its shortcomings. I know that Glen Beck gets off on placing the blame on the economic woes on Cloward-Piven. Cloward-Piven has had nothing to do with the current economic crisis and it is far from a communist plot. Our current problems can be traced directly to a failure of our financial system. The increased demand on safety net programs is a result of the economy. The ACA is a program that is needed until we can have a genuine NHS. Whether we are in financial crisis or not, NHS will ultimately save this nation from collapse due to out of control inflationary healthcare costs.
hank rearden August 2, 2012 at 02:23 pm
Thank you for your knee jerk response Lyle. I see that you parrot the liberal line well and that you are in good company with Dirk. you obviously know nothing about the 'financial system' to place blame at the feet of an entire industry. Good day sir, you cannot be helped.
"Republicans, we work hard so you don't have to"
Bob McBride August 2, 2012 at 02:26 pm
Yes, Dirk, I've been there. Obviously more recently than you have. If you don't think companies are taking into consideration that the people they wish to retain because of their value to the business itself could commute (either physically or via the internet) to other organizations that don't operate in MA, you're being silly.
While we're on the topic of critiquing other posters, I've noticed a distinct trend on your part not to read most things completely, not to comprehend what little you read and to be overwhelmed and/or mystified by anything that's occurred anywhere past your front porch since about the dawn of this century. And I always take that into account when you offer up one of your own.
skinnyDUDE August 2, 2012 at 02:44 pm
Liberals are not serious on anything fiscal . They are the do nothing party given the fiscal cliff. Obama taxes on the rich is in reality about running the actual government and its expenses for one week. But they have no plan for the other 51 weeks of the year. THAT'S THE PROBLEM . The kick the can down the road is at the peril of the nation. But the victim party and to some extend the republican party continue to make promises that can not be kept . This is based on the logic and consequences of debt. The deficit is what will ultimately undo this nation and this liberal President and his actions is the poster child for what not to do .The only thing the Senate has 100 % agreed on the past 2 years is too vote ENTIRELY against this Presidents own budget. He simply lacks courage or logic to solve what ails the nation.
Dirk Gutzmiller August 2, 2012 at 03:58 pm
McBride - If you are truthful about having been in Massachusetts recently, tell us again how it is really really different than the rest of the country again. They are not Americans, or they are somehow alien or weird? It seems you are denigrating people from Massachusetts, which would include the Romney clan. Tell us about your personal experiences and observations, and how Massachusetts can live well under Romneycare, and it does not apply to us? The commuting angle you came up with does not work there, tell me where Bostonians would commute to for jobs outside Mass. Check travel times to the nearest small burg in New Hampshire. Successfully working from home via telecommuting has been proven to work for only a small percentage of workers.
I just cannot get any sense out of your attempts to spout the Tea party line. You should just copy the party line you apparently receive from HQ each day into your comments so as to avoid confusion on your part and others that try to endure your strained and laborious attempts to justify weak and even fallacious points.
Bob McBride August 2, 2012 at 04:21 pm
Dirk, once again, reading comprehension...or just plain reading...whatever it is, you fail.
Did I say it was different from the rest of the country? No. Is it different from some areas of the country in terms of business and population density? Yes. As a result, are there aspects of the area that might make it easier for someone who is considered a valuable asset to a particular company to find another company not out of reasonable commuting distance for whom to work than there are in other areas? Yes. In fact, if you want to draw a comparison right near home here, there are people who choose to live in Wisconsin and who chose to work in Illinois. Do they live Steven's Point? Most likely not. Is the situation the same in, say, South Dakota or North Dakota? No, it's not. Your dated observation on telecommuting, aside. As for the usual tired Tea Party references, duly noted. Go run through the sprinkler. You're overheating.
Dirk Gutzmiller August 2, 2012 at 04:22 pm
Hoffa - Suggest you write a book about how you get customized services from doctors and insurance companies. That kind of service is generally for the very rich or famous, and you are not. Most reputable doctors are busy and would not endure a pain in the arse like you, negotiating and dealing like over a used car. And that can take an incredible amount of time and energy on the part of the patient, particularly if ill. And a big ego walking into a reputabe doctor's office with his pockets bulging with $100 bills wanting to negotiate a hemorrhoidectomy he read about on WebMD is a laughable image.
Not sure what insurance company would write out a custom health insurance policy, underwrite it, and guarantee it ironclad, with severe penalties if THEY back out. That seems like a big effort and risk to go through for one measly health policy, and any agent or insurance company I know would not bother or even be set up to do so. These days, one is lucky to get a standard policy and keep it.
Lyle Ruble August 2, 2012 at 04:34 pm
@hank rearden...Other than ad hominem attacks are you claiming that it is Cloward-Piven that caused the financial collapse? You seem to be off the rails on this.
J. B. Schmidt August 2, 2012 at 04:46 pm
@Dirk
Have you ever attempted what Hoffa is suggesting or do you just wave the flag claiming the rich are preventing you from flexing any testicular fortitude? Hoffa has rejected the notion that our society is based on privilege that only favors the rich and instead is grabbing the system by the short hairs and making it work for himself. In other words he is attempting to be successful. Everyone born in this country has that same opportunity. It is on the individual to take advantage of it. It is not up to the government to provide it. As for, "one is lucky to get a standard policy and keep it" (sniff, sniff, wipe a tear), please don't bring your Pity Dirk Party to patch. It makes you look weak.
James R Hoffa August 2, 2012 at 04:53 pm
@Dirk -
Are you calling Hoffa a liar just because he's smarter than you and is able to make the system work for him as opposed to vice versa? Hoffa is a legend is his own right - if you only knew! It required A LOT of leg work on Hoffa's behalf, but it was well worth it. You're probably one of those people who actually believe that the increase in those going on SSI disability recently are actually, honestly, and truly disabled - what a a crock of you know what!
Dirk Gutzmiller August 2, 2012 at 08:14 pm
McGuire - Really, about the weakest and incorrect points for why Romneycare or Obamacare would not work in the rest of the country. You better get ahold of Koch HQ and ask for a better argument on this. A twisted, minor, attempt to play up the minor differences of Massachusetts and the rest of the country re health care rules, and how Massachusetts is SOOO unusual and Romneycare was a one state solution.
Give Wisconsin and the other states Romneycare, if not the ACA!
kate August 2, 2012 at 08:18 pm
Dirk, how long have you been on the public dole? Doesn't it bother you that you are advocating welfare for all, maybe welfare is a part of your family culture, but most of us would like choice and the ability to pay for our healthcare.
Bob McBride August 2, 2012 at 08:33 pm
Who's McGuire?
Dirk, I'm all about helping and I've really tried with you, but, aside from appearing hopeless, you're a bit of a prickly old fart. So I'm not inclined to waste anymore time on you. However, if you find this issue of confusion creeping into other areas of your life, I'd suggest you call your local senior outreach center to see if they can arrange to have someone swing by and check up on you periodically. Back to the topic itself, trying to draw any parallels between a one-state program and what might occur with whatever you want to call it...Rombamacare, maybe (and doesn't it just gripe you libs that you have to acknowledge that Feckless Leader glommed most of it from a guy you hate with a passion?)...on a nationwide basis is bad brainwork, particularly when you don't provide any links supporting the supposition and tell people to "google it" when they suggest you do (no, that wasn't for you, Dirk) Nobody really knows what's going to happen. All we know is that those on the left view this as a stepping stone to NHC and don't really care if, in fact, millions of people are actually paying more for their health care or, how that effects the overall economy - even though much wailing a gnashing of teeth went on in that regard when the state employees were made to contribute to their health insurance. The ends justify the means. Obama made his deal with the Devil - and it's the same one you guys blame for our problems in the first place.
Dirk Gutzmiller August 3, 2012 at 03:44 pm
Hoffa - Pretty sure you are in conflict with most people most of the time. The legacy you leave is that you are/were an a-hole, such as with all the sandwich shop zoning arguments and hate for anyone not totally conservative. I do not respect that kind of in-your-face yelling and griping all the time, and I would enjoy personally throwing you out of my office if you started that crap with me. And I do not believe most of what you state as to your big negotiating skills and business successes, or you would not be on Patch constantly telling everyone how smart you are. Yes, if you go totally rude and obnoxious, you can get some people to give you a deal just to get you out of their hair. You are more blowhard than intelligent. Those things start to catch up to you later, and maybe that explains why you are constantly on Patch extolling your gangsta persona, and not out there working.
Dirk Gutzmiller August 3, 2012 at 03:55 pm
kate - Never been on the public dole kate. Never had a government job. Inherited very little from my parents. Worked my way through college and grad school, essentially without a scholarship. Paid my college loans back, early. Worked at Wal-Mart for years as a manager and accumulated lots of salary and compensation in stock options that really paid off. Yet I have empathy for others. Try it sometime. It is statements like yours about caring people that show a certain ignorance for who progressives really are, and where they come from.
Dirk Gutzmiller August 3, 2012 at 04:12 pm
McBride - What you lack in so many categories, you try to make up for in persistence. You are one of those commenters that say you are giving up, then go on and on and on as in your last comment. You are really not adding anything, just repeating. And by the way, age discrimination is akin to racial, gender, etc. discrimination. Bullying is also a no-no in the real world. There is so much difference between progressives and the common Tea Party types in being civil, mannered, and understanding. It must be frustrating for you not being a match for a prickly old fart. By the way, I just beat two young PhDs in a five hour board game.
I apologize for calling you McGuire, had just finished reading a column by Ashley McGuire, and it was a laugh riot. Ashley has done fellowships with the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation. Somehow, in my aged feebleness, I connected her views with you.
Bob McBride August 3, 2012 at 04:38 pm
Dirk, I'd buy the name excuse if you hadn't done the same thing repeatedly in the past.
Seriously, I've wasted enough time with you. You either can't read or can't comprehend what you read and you insist on telling people what they mean when they comment here and you're always wrong in that regard. Go back to your board games. You don't shine here.
Dirk Gutzmiller August 3, 2012 at 08:43 pm
McBride - I thought you were done with your comments. I guess you want to play Patch like a computer game, as usual. I do not appreciate your efforts to shout me down in your vulgar and bullying manner, and keep on with your cold, inhumane Tea Party rantings even when you say you are going to stop reacting to my dead-on comments.
Are your addicted to always trying to get the last word?
James R Hoffa August 3, 2012 at 09:22 pm
@Dirk -
All you've proven with this comment is that you really know how to misjudge people and can name call as well as those who regularly post on the Daily Kos. Hoffa feels sorry for you.
Bryant Divelbiss August 4, 2012 at 12:47 am
Lyle you are likely correct that it can not be stopped now that the Supreme Court refused to honor the Constitution. The only hope is getting to 55+ GOP senators and finding 5 Democrats to support a far less destructive plan in place of it and that is long shot. It will ensure a fiscal collapse if we fail to stop it.
Bryant Divelbiss August 4, 2012 at 12:53 am
If we cant get rid of Obamacare we should drop coverage for Public employees and throw them in the exchanges. They love Obama let them enjoy what they voted for first.
Dirk Gutzmiller August 4, 2012 at 06:56 pm
Hoffa - Don't need your sympathy.
I am a self-made man, successful, and a liberal. Never had to go out and dig up an independent healthcare policy, private employers were glad to make a very good one available for myself and my family. But I can see how difficult your situation must be as an independent business owner, out there fighting and searching to avoid financial distress due to medical costs.

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